Digital VCRs

[m***@bellsouth.net]

I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.

I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.

Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.

Mort

[GMAN]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.

There are quite a few now with free ATSC tuners, they also can do clear QAM
for digital cable.

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.
Mort

[UCLAN]

Post by GMAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.

There are quite a few now with free ATSC tuners, they also can do clear QAM
for digital cable.

There are stand alone VCRs with ATSC/QAM tuners, or are they DVD/VCR combos?

[GMAN]

Post by UCLAN

Post by GMAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.

There are quite a few now with free ATSC tuners, they also can do clear QAM
for digital cable.

There are stand alone VCRs with ATSC/QAM tuners, or are they DVD/VCR combos?

Sorry, more specifically, there are quite a few DVD recorders with ATSC
tuners.

[UCLAN]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.

I know of no DVD recorders that require a monthly charge. Did you
possibly mean DVRs ??

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.

With analog OTA on the way out, analog VCRs have a decreasing market. Add
to that the popularity of DVD recorders and hard disk recorders (such as
TIVO or cable DVRs), and VCR manufacturers aren't real enthusiastic about
trying to market a stand alone VCR with an ATSC tuner (mandated by the FCC.)
There are a lot of DVD/VCR combo units still made, however.

[m***@bellsouth.net]

Post by UCLAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.

I know of no DVD recorders that require a monthly charge. Did you
possibly mean DVRs ??

Yes, most of them are DVRs.

Mort

Post by UCLAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.

With analog OTA on the way out, analog VCRs have a decreasing market. Add
to that the popularity of DVD recorders and hard disk recorders (such as
TIVO or cable DVRs), and VCR manufacturers aren't real enthusiastic about
trying to market a stand alone VCR with an ATSC tuner (mandated by the FCC.)
There are a lot of DVD/VCR combo units still made, however.

[Tony at the Shore]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.
Mort

I still use several VCRs to record not just TV shows but they are
great for recording 6 hours of audio from my XM radio output and
internet broadcasts. All the input signals are the same and the
VHS tapes give high quality stereo recordings.
--Tony

[Tony at the Shore]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.
Mort

I still use several VCRs to record not just TV shows but they are
great for recording 6 hours of audio from my XM radio output and
internet broadcasts. All the input signals are the same and the
VHS tapes give high quality stereo recordings.
--Tony

[avory]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.
Mort

Mort,

I saw your post concerning VCR's and I couldn't agree with you more.
Despite all the hoopla surrounding DVR's, I simply cannot understand
why more people don't recognize that they've actually gone backwards
in terms of flexibility and ease of use. I know that most Americans
never could program their VCR's (which says more for their lack of
patience and education) but for those of us who did "master" the VCR,
it remains a wondrous item that still occupies an important place in
the home. I can record a show and easily watch it in another room,
take it with me on vacation, share it with friends...try doing that
with your TiVO or your DVR. Even if you have a hard drive DVR that
can record to DVD-R (and I have one and love it) I would never think
of making digital copies just for time shifting shows like I do with
my VCR. VCR's are the best things, hands down, for time shifting of
programs...as someone who has embraced digital technology, I still
love my analog toys and I have many of them, including some sweet Sony
SuperBeta units that are elegance personified.

Thanks for sparking some interest in a topic that goes unspoken
normally because people are afraid of being called "fuddy-duddies".
And yeah, I still have a record player and it's amazing, isn't it,
that some people are getting back into vinyl because the sonic quality
of digital too often stinks.

Sasha in NC

[m***@bellsouth.net]

Post by avory

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
I think the video cassette recorder (VCR) was one of the outstanding
products of the last twenty years. Now, if you Google "Digital VCR"
you will find nothing but DVD recorders, most of them requiring a
hookup which comes with a monthly charge.
I still think that for home recording of TV shows, nothing is simpler
and easier to use than the good old VCR.
Anybody here have comments, or perhaps even some info about recording
media as easy to use as the VCR? Please post here if you do. Thanks.
Mort

Mort,
I saw your post concerning VCR's and I couldn't agree with you more.
Despite all the hoopla surrounding DVR's, I simply cannot understand
why more people don't recognize that they've actually gone backwards
in terms of flexibility and ease of use. I know that most Americans
never could program their VCR's (which says more for their lack of
patience and education) but for those of us who did "master" the VCR,
it remains a wondrous item that still occupies an important place in
the home. I can record a show and easily watch it in another room,
take it with me on vacation, share it with friends...try doing that
with your TiVO or your DVR. Even if you have a hard drive DVR that
can record to DVD-R (and I have one and love it) I would never think
of making digital copies just for time shifting shows like I do with
my VCR. VCR's are the best things, hands down, for time shifting of
programs...as someone who has embraced digital technology, I still
love my analog toys and I have many of them, including some sweet Sony
SuperBeta units that are elegance personified.
Thanks for sparking some interest in a topic that goes unspoken
normally because people are afraid of being called "fuddy-duddies".
And yeah, I still have a record player and it's amazing, isn't it,
that some people are getting back into vinyl because the sonic quality
of digital too often stinks.
Sasha in NC

Hi Sasha,

Thanks for your observations. What are you going to do after the
February switch-over? I'm sure you understand that you will have to
use your digital gear to record TV shows. Or have I missed something?
Thanks again.

Mort

[UCLAN]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
Thanks for your observations. What are you going to do after the
February switch-over? I'm sure you understand that you will have to
use your digital gear to record TV shows. Or have I missed something?

If you have cable, you can use your VCRs same as always. No change.
If you have OTA, a simple converter box ("free" with available coupons)
between your antenna and VCR is all you need to keep using your analog
VCRs. I have THREE VCRs in use, as well as a DVR. The IPG makes time-
shifting with a DVR easy for even the brain dead. It also labels the
recording with time, date, program length, and PROGRAM TITLE. I have
a problem remembering to label my VCR tapes, and have no idea what is
on them without inserting tape and playing a portion. Not a problem
with a DVR. I only have one TV (a HDTV), so portability is not an issue.

[Mike S.]

Post by UCLAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
Thanks for your observations. What are you going to do after the
February switch-over? I'm sure you understand that you will have to
use your digital gear to record TV shows. Or have I missed something?

If you have cable, you can use your VCRs same as always. No change.

Not when analog cable disappears too.

[UCLAN]

Post by Mike S.

Post by UCLAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
Thanks for your observations. What are you going to do after the
February switch-over? I'm sure you understand that you will have to
use your digital gear to record TV shows. Or have I missed something?

If you have cable, you can use your VCRs same as always. No change.

Not when analog cable disappears too.

And when is that gonna happen? The question was in reference to the
February switchover, not some unknown date. Plus, digital cable boxes
have analog outputs. No change, except you won't be able to plug the
digital only cable directly into the VCR.

[Barry F Margolius]

Post by UCLAN

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
Thanks for your observations. What are you going to do after the
February switch-over? I'm sure you understand that you will have to
use your digital gear to record TV shows. Or have I missed something?

If you have cable, you can use your VCRs same as always. No change.
If you have OTA, a simple converter box ("free" with available coupons)
between your antenna and VCR is all you need to keep using your analog
VCRs. I have THREE VCRs in use, as well as a DVR. The IPG makes time-
shifting with a DVR easy for even the brain dead. It also labels the
recording with time, date, program length, and PROGRAM TITLE. I have
a problem remembering to label my VCR tapes, and have no idea what is
on them without inserting tape and playing a portion. Not a problem
with a DVR. I only have one TV (a HDTV), so portability is not an issue.

A VCR with a converter box will work for recording shows, but you will
not be able to record two sequential shows on different channels: for
example, NBC from 8:00-9:00 and CBS from 9:00-10:00.

Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

-barry

[UCLAN]

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
If you have cable, you can use your VCRs same as always. No change.
If you have OTA, a simple converter box ("free" with available coupons)
between your antenna and VCR is all you need to keep using your analog
VCRs. I have THREE VCRs in use, as well as a DVR. The IPG makes time-
shifting with a DVR easy for even the brain dead. It also labels the
recording with time, date, program length, and PROGRAM TITLE. I have
a problem remembering to label my VCR tapes, and have no idea what is
on them without inserting tape and playing a portion. Not a problem
with a DVR. I only have one TV (a HDTV), so portability is not an issue.

A VCR with a converter box will work for recording shows, but you will
not be able to record two sequential shows on different channels: for
example, NBC from 8:00-9:00 and CBS from 9:00-10:00.

Depends on the converter box. The DTVpal has a built in programmable timer
that will change channels as you mention above. It can be programmed
through the IPG or manually, just as most DVRs. Another manufacturer
was due to release another converter with built in timers, but I don't
know if they had done so yet.

Post by Barry F Margolius
Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

Or a two-tuner converter box. Not aware of any that exist (yet), but
for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want.

[Barry F Margolius]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
If you have cable, you can use your VCRs same as always. No change.
If you have OTA, a simple converter box ("free" with available coupons)
between your antenna and VCR is all you need to keep using your analog
VCRs. I have THREE VCRs in use, as well as a DVR. The IPG makes time-
shifting with a DVR easy for even the brain dead. It also labels the
recording with time, date, program length, and PROGRAM TITLE. I have
a problem remembering to label my VCR tapes, and have no idea what is
on them without inserting tape and playing a portion. Not a problem
with a DVR. I only have one TV (a HDTV), so portability is not an issue.

A VCR with a converter box will work for recording shows, but you will
not be able to record two sequential shows on different channels: for
example, NBC from 8:00-9:00 and CBS from 9:00-10:00.

Depends on the converter box. The DTVpal has a built in programmable timer
that will change channels as you mention above. It can be programmed
through the IPG or manually, just as most DVRs. Another manufacturer
was due to release another converter with built in timers, but I don't
know if they had done so yet.

Post by Barry F Margolius
Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

Or a two-tuner converter box. Not aware of any that exist (yet), but
for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want.

Your comments are correct and helpful. I will, however, address your
last throw-away line: "...what do you want".

It's not what I want, but what my friend wants. She's a non-technical
person who currently has a TV, a VCR, and rabbit ears. With this
setup, she can do everything she needs which is: watch TV, watch on
channel and record another, and go out of the evening and record
multiple shows on different channels. She asked me for help in
getting ready for digital conversion.

Turns out it is remarkably complicated to duplicate her rather simple
setup in the post-February world. Buy two converter boxes would go
part-way -- well, all the way with the programmable box you mention
although this would add the considerable complexity of programming two
different boxes (VCR and converter) to record one show.

A more expensive solution would be to buy one converter box and one
digital ready VCR/DVD recorder. This is probably her best solution,
although I would have to split the output of the digital antenna
making for a rats nest of wiring. I could get her two digital
antennas (letting her optimize each antenna for the channel she's
watching/recording) but now her dresser-top is really starting to look
like a satellite farm. :-)

She is willing to spend some money. Wouldn't it be nice if somebody
started making a VCR/DVD recorder with two digital tuners,
specifically designed for this purpose. There must be a lot of people
in the same boat as my friend. I guess February is still a long time
away in "gadget years", so maybe a solution will arise. She has
already bought her two converter boxes (her coupons were about to
expire), but I have told her to wait until January to make any
decisions on what approach to take.

Thanks for your comments,

-barry

[UCLAN]

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
Depends on the converter box. The DTVpal has a built in programmable timer
that will change channels as you mention above. It can be programmed
through the IPG or manually, just as most DVRs. Another manufacturer
was due to release another converter with built in timers, but I don't
know if they had done so yet.

Post by Barry F Margolius
Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

Or a two-tuner converter box. Not aware of any that exist (yet), but
for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want.

Your comments are correct and helpful. I will, however, address your
last throw-away line: "...what do you want".

No, I said "...for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want"? Big difference.

You say she's willing to spend some money. Is she positively tied to the
VCR technology? If not, consider a DVR. Spend the $$$ for current (TIVO)
offerings, or wait for the makers of the DTVpal to deliver their promised
dual ATSC tuner DVR which DOESN'T require a monthly subscription. Model
number released in Vegas was TR-50? Made by the same makers of the award
winning DISH HD DVR (yes, this one is HD.) Good luck to her.

[Barry F Margolius]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
Depends on the converter box. The DTVpal has a built in programmable timer
that will change channels as you mention above. It can be programmed
through the IPG or manually, just as most DVRs. Another manufacturer
was due to release another converter with built in timers, but I don't
know if they had done so yet.

Post by Barry F Margolius
Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

Or a two-tuner converter box. Not aware of any that exist (yet), but
for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want.

Your comments are correct and helpful. I will, however, address your
last throw-away line: "...what do you want".

No, I said "...for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want"? Big difference.
You say she's willing to spend some money. Is she positively tied to the
VCR technology? If not, consider a DVR. Spend the $$$ for current (TIVO)
offerings, or wait for the makers of the DTVpal to deliver their promised
dual ATSC tuner DVR which DOESN'T require a monthly subscription. Model
number released in Vegas was TR-50? Made by the same makers of the award
winning DISH HD DVR (yes, this one is HD.) Good luck to her.

The DTVpal DVR might be a really good answer for her - I'll keep tabs
on it. She won't go TIVO because she doesn't like the idea of a
monthly subscription, and she absolutely hates the idea of hooking her
TV up to the phone from both a privacy (primary objection) and
convenience point of view. (She has only dial-up internet, so the
phone connection is pretty much a must.)

Thanks,

-barry

[UCLAN]

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
Depends on the converter box. The DTVpal has a built in programmable timer
that will change channels as you mention above. It can be programmed
through the IPG or manually, just as most DVRs. Another manufacturer
was due to release another converter with built in timers, but I don't
know if they had done so yet.

Post by Barry F Margolius
Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

Or a two-tuner converter box. Not aware of any that exist (yet), but
for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want.

Your comments are correct and helpful. I will, however, address your
last throw-away line: "...what do you want".
It's not what I want, but what my friend wants. She's a non-technical
person who currently has a TV, a VCR, and rabbit ears. With this
setup, she can do everything she needs which is: watch TV, watch on
channel and record another, and go out of the evening and record
multiple shows on different channels. She asked me for help in
getting ready for digital conversion.
Turns out it is remarkably complicated to duplicate her rather simple
setup in the post-February world. Buy two converter boxes would go
part-way -- well, all the way with the programmable box you mention
although this would add the considerable complexity of programming two
different boxes (VCR and converter) to record one show.

Or she could buy a TV with an ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner inside. I don't know
what size she wants, but they are *really* coming down in price. Then,
with just one converter going to her VCR (or a DVR without the converter),
she can do as she has in the past.

[Barry F Margolius]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
Depends on the converter box. The DTVpal has a built in programmable timer
that will change channels as you mention above. It can be programmed
through the IPG or manually, just as most DVRs. Another manufacturer
was due to release another converter with built in timers, but I don't
know if they had done so yet.

Post by Barry F Margolius
Also, you will need two converter boxes if you want to be able to
watch one channel and record another.

Or a two-tuner converter box. Not aware of any that exist (yet), but
for $0-$20 after coupon, what do you want.

Your comments are correct and helpful. I will, however, address your
last throw-away line: "...what do you want".
It's not what I want, but what my friend wants. She's a non-technical
person who currently has a TV, a VCR, and rabbit ears. With this
setup, she can do everything she needs which is: watch TV, watch on
channel and record another, and go out of the evening and record
multiple shows on different channels. She asked me for help in
getting ready for digital conversion.
Turns out it is remarkably complicated to duplicate her rather simple
setup in the post-February world. Buy two converter boxes would go
part-way -- well, all the way with the programmable box you mention
although this would add the considerable complexity of programming two
different boxes (VCR and converter) to record one show.

Or she could buy a TV with an ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner inside. I don't know
what size she wants, but they are *really* coming down in price. Then,
with just one converter going to her VCR (or a DVR without the converter),
she can do as she has in the past.

That's what I would have done (screw the money!), but she doesn't want
to spend the bucks. This is because she is frugal, but also because
she feels (VERY strongly) that her TV is still working fine, and she
is angry at the government for "screwing up" her TV.

-barry

[UCLAN]

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
Or she could buy a TV with an ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner inside. I don't know
what size she wants, but they are *really* coming down in price. Then,
with just one converter going to her VCR (or a DVR without the converter),
she can do as she has in the past.

That's what I would have done (screw the money!), but she doesn't want
to spend the bucks. This is because she is frugal, but also because
she feels (VERY strongly) that her TV is still working fine, and she
is angry at the government for "screwing up" her TV.

I thought my WEGA was "working fine", too. That's until I saw HDTV on
a Bravia. Bye bye, WEGA.

She will have to get a new TV sooner or later. Has she *seen* the picture
on a decent 16:9 digital set? She might change her opinion that her present
TV is "working fine."

[Barry F Margolius]

Post by UCLAN

Post by Barry F Margolius

Post by UCLAN
Or she could buy a TV with an ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuner inside. I don't know
what size she wants, but they are *really* coming down in price. Then,
with just one converter going to her VCR (or a DVR without the converter),
she can do as she has in the past.

That's what I would have done (screw the money!), but she doesn't want
to spend the bucks. This is because she is frugal, but also because
she feels (VERY strongly) that her TV is still working fine, and she
is angry at the government for "screwing up" her TV.

I thought my WEGA was "working fine", too. That's until I saw HDTV on
a Bravia. Bye bye, WEGA.
She will have to get a new TV sooner or later. Has she *seen* the picture
on a decent 16:9 digital set? She might change her opinion that her present
TV is "working fine."

In my opinion, you are absolutely right, but she swears she cannot
tell the difference. She has a 19" Panasonic LCD 4:3 set, and she
sits about 10-12 feet away from it!! I guess she can't tell anything
from that distance unless her eyes are lots better than mine. :-)

I have not been able to find any hard info on the DTVpal DVR, but I'm
not buying her anything until January - let capitalism and technology
work their magic for a few more months; maybe something good will
arise.

-barry

[UCLAN]

Post by Barry F Margolius
In my opinion, you are absolutely right, but she swears she cannot
tell the difference. She has a 19" Panasonic LCD 4:3 set, and she
sits about 10-12 feet away from it!! I guess she can't tell anything
from that distance unless her eyes are lots better than mine. :-)

I can tell the difference between analog and digital from across the
room. I guess - in her case - ignorance *is* bliss!

Post by Barry F Margolius
I have not been able to find any hard info on the DTVpal DVR, but I'm
not buying her anything until January - let capitalism and technology
work their magic for a few more months; maybe something good will
arise.

Continuing thread of the TR-50 at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

Looks like vaporware so far. :(

[m***@bellsouth.net]

If nothing else, I am somewhat amazed at the number of responses to my
question.

It suddenly occurred to me, why doesn't some enterprising electronics
manufacturer produce digital video tape and a digital tape recorder?

Mort

[UCLAN]

Post by m***@bellsouth.net
If nothing else, I am somewhat amazed at the number of responses to my
question.
It suddenly occurred to me, why doesn't some enterprising electronics
manufacturer produce digital video tape and a digital tape recorder?

They did! It's called D-VHS. JVC and Mitsubishi both had model. Both
have long since been discontinued. I have the Mitsubishi model, an
HS-HD2000U. I forget the JVC model #, but it had an ATSC tuner, while
the Mitsubishi did not. Both would record HDTV.